How many of you know how incredibly tough Harry Greb really was?

Maybe Harry Greb is overrated, because he lost his fourth pro fight to an unknown guy called Hooks Evans. Newspaper decisions were also questionable back then, since it was easy to be partial and favor a guy. I don't trust newspaper decisions of those times and I don't trust all the myths without certifications about Greb neither. It however is a fact that Greb sparred with Jack Dempsey and that he had an official record of 107-8-3, which is impressive. Who knows who Greb fought in his other 191 fights, maybe all bums. Imagine Sugar Ray Robinson fighting 200 bums and no-names beside his record. Maybe Greb is the greatest ever, maybe not. In the end he must've been a tough fella to fight 298 bouts. Willie Pep had a record of 229-11-1 to compare. But his record is more impressive than Greb's 107-8-3. And the other 191 fights of Harry Greb aren't recorded, so their more like a myth than a fact.

I give Harry Greb all the credit I could possibly give him while being objective. With that, I have long placed him in the Top Four at middleweight. I've always maintained that the middleweight division is the one division that has an Upper Group (Top 4 in this case) that stands firmly above the rest.

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Each division has an Upper echelon that stands well above the rest. The number of fighters in each group varies depending on the group. .. In these groups, the Elite wins over the rest nearly every time.

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For example, the lightweight and welterweight divisions would have more members in their Upper Echelon simply because both divisions are rich with legendary talent.

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The Middleweight Upper Echelon included Harry Greb along with Robinson, Monzon and Hagler. These four stand well above the rest in division history and are only threatened by contemporary champions, Hopkins and Jones.

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None of the Middleweight Elite would go undefeated in a series of fights against the others in their group. However, once you remove Hopkins and Jones from the rest of the pack, The Top Four would beat the rest of the division rather easily. Greb is among this Top Four.

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The ONLY knock I have against Greb, likely no fault of his own, is that we can't SEE him in action. There are no known films of his fights. It Astounds me that, in over 300 fights, Greb was Never recorded.

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The one other problem I have is with anything that is recorded from that time period. We hear so much about how great Dempsey was. Indeed he was. However, as often as I hear stories about his record number of first round KO wins, I hear stories about loaded gloves and I'm reminded that there was no way to know for sure if Dempsey was always on the level. I'm also reminded of the rules that favored him during those times and I'm convinced that he would not hold such a record if not for the rules of the time.

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Regarding Greb, about 190 of his fights were "No decision" battles. The more time passes, the greater he becomes in the eyes of those who READ the accounts of others who are no longer around to back their stories up.

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Again, I give Greb all the credit I possibly can. The stories of his bullying of Dempsey and Tunney are consistent enough and believable considering the way both were allowed to "cherry pick" their opponents.

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But with Greb's greatness comes a great deal of questions that we just can't answer. He's certainly in the Middleweight Top 4. I have to give him that with everything I know....................And I have studied him as closely as I possibly can. However, I cannot SEE it for myself. Top 4 is HUGE for middleweight. But I can't put Greb above Robinson because I can see Ray. I can't see Harry. It's our loss.

"easily, dominated Dempsey in all out sparring sessions who would not give him a title shot. Carpentier wanted no part of him and he actually beat Tunney twice (draw was bull) and was robbed in the 2nd fight".

Maybe I'm just cynical toughguy, but I feel like "allegedly" should be in there once or twice.

On paper Greb was clearly a beast and a tough SOB, he was only stopped twice in 300 fights. That's the definition of supreme durability...

He was one tough guy. He was no question one great middleweights. Dempsey was feared respected and vicious. He wanted nothing to do with Harry Greb. Greb was so good he was beating heavyweights. Yes a legend. He was one of a kind.

The Pittsburgh windmill beat many top middleweights, light heavyweight Gene Tunney and is considered a tough. old school fighter.

I know his record and his ability to fight and beat much larger boxers, but without actually seeing him it is impossible to appreciate his skill and ability. He had a tragic and unnecessary death.

he was incredibly tough, i actually rqnk him #1 middleweight of all time but it is hard to talk abiut a fighter wuth no film

Count me in. He was the toughest ever.